And Im curious, you used a comment about Jesus being the son of Mary. In week 9 vs. the New York Jets, Christie went 3 for 4 on field-goal attempts (20, 29, & 34 yards). . All right. I would give this analogy to my protestant brothers and sisters. As I showed earlier, you have people like Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, who were firmly I would not call them Catholic. The same in any intellectual study. So my point would be that if we would show that devotion to the means through which Jesus died, why wouldnt we show that similar devotion through the means by which Jesus was born? I believe all things are possible with God. The New Testament writers used it, but they did not use it universally for that reason. In 2015 Christie was named Executive Director of Sports at Mastermind Lounge, LLC. (Hebrews 11:35b, 2 Maccabees 6,7), Is the Apocrypha or Deutero-Canonical Books Part of the Bible? I mean, aside from the dogmas, I think one of the ones that make me cringe is that Catholics worship Mary, where every time I hear that, Im like And I brought it up, but I explained I came about it through a different way. Well, not necessarily. Sure. Please click that. So for example, if a Protestant listens to todays debate and agrees with Trent and Calvin and Luther that Mary didnt have children, could he still, in your view, be a good Protestant Christian? After completing several real estate transactions, Stephen discovered that the agents' work ethics . Also death is not a sign of being a sinner, as Steve alluded to earlier. Christie is currently President of Relative Goal Sports and Entertainment Management LLC., certified as a Canadian Football League contract advisor and has represented numerous musical acts in both the United States and Scotland. Were were talking about whats actually used in the New Testament, because even the New Testament writers would deviate from the Septuagint occasionally, because they would use a better translation. The Isaiah 7:14 prophecy only indicates that Mary was to remain a virgin during her pregnancy and up to the Messiahs birth., The NAB continues, The evangelist is simply concerned to emphasize that Joseph was not responsible for the conception of Jesus, which is why Matthew stresses the child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. Then theres going to be a time of cross-examination, and then were going to do 30 minutes of Q&A. He became sin for us. Marys special, unique status and her being mother of God is something throughout the fathers, definitely. Advertisement "God gave us the greatest apologist of this. So do it. David K. Clark - apologist with notable books; teaches at Bethel Seminary. And I also want to thank Trent for picking the particular title on how it was actually described because I had mentioned, Hey, lets just do the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. And hes like, Lets do all three of them. So it was Trents idea. Rather, this is Mary simply being obedient to the law just as Jesus submitted himself to baptism for the sake of all righteousness. And my contention is that if Adam had not fallen and inherited original sin, he would not have died. Yep. Its always nice to see people who are willing to put forward rigorous argument and engage others charitably. Enough Jews were reading the deuterocanonical books that a leading rabbi at the time had to declare that they were not Scripture. Im trying to appeal to Catholic guilt, but its not working. You have seven-, All right. So since Jacob is referred to as the son of Isaac, and Reuben as the son of Jacob, then were they only children? All serious students of God's Word need to know these Christian apologists below. Yet the presence of those exceptions doesnt disprove the nearly universal truth the sacred author was affirming. I dont have a problem with the word a adelphos, that was never my argument. He was a key contributor in the Bills comeback win against the Houston Oilers, in which Buffalo rallied from a 32-point deficit[2] to complete the largest comeback victory in NFL history. Oct 10 My debate against Dr Robert Sungenis has been RESCHEDULED for Tues Nov 8 at 8pm EST: youtube.com I thought about writing a book on-. Their issue is about the authority of the church. You can also reach me on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. The earliest source sharing in this view that she died first is from the Dormition. September 16, 2018 by Randal. And eventually those ended up being dropped throughout the debate. Your generous donations are tax-deductible. So unlike Twitter and YouTube, Im not going to get banned from saying the sorts of things I say that go against secular dogma. So when were speaking of the adelphos, the brethren of the Lord, its used in some sort of non-standard way. If so, if it was an eyewitness account, why hasnt the Catholic church dogmatically declared whether or not she died first? Mark - Hello Christie, thank you so much for . Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. The relevance would be that you are using it. And at basic, psalms 69, if you continue reading, it says that the Messiah was taking on the reproach of other people. Of the 336 field goals Steve Christie kicked during his 15-year National Football League career, none was more important than the one he booted in overtime on Jan. 3, 1993, at the stadium then known as Rich. 1644440684524367. steve.christie@phmloans.com. Well, why would I believe that Marys parents-. Well, the Septuagint was a Greek translation that was finished around 134 BC. Eventually they stopped attending church "because of the shallowness of what we found," Steve Ray said. It follows that Mary is the mother of God. That the one being assumed would not see death and so their corpse would not be found as the case for both Enoch and Elijah demonstrates. Not just saying that because theyre paying me, although that definitely helps. If this verse in Psalm 69 is applied non-literally to Jesus, the verse that talks about, My mothers sons, can also be applied in a non-literal way. Yeah. But anyways, Im going to come back to that. As 1 Timothy 3:15 says, the pillar and foundation of truth. In fact, Protestants believe in many doctrines that are not found in scripture like their 66 book cannon of scripture where that public revelation ended in the first century. Locals is a free speech platform. And we can safely assume that Jesus saw the body of Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration. It would be an evidence chip, if you will, for it that we have to balance with other evidences. You can get both of those on Amazon. Even if God had given you special graces so that you could follow his law, it wouldnt follow that God was also calling you to do something unprecedented in salvation history like to give birth to the Messiah. Perhaps John witnessed this event and then told others or this may have been given to John through some other kind of revelation. You can see him and others talk about this on the Reason and Theology Channel. Okay. It just means somebody is wrong, whether it be me or another person who calls themselves Protestant that accepts these things. Christie requested his release from Jacksonville after a week in camp hoping to retire, but signed with the New York Giants a day later, playing what would be his final NFL season. Both of us agree thats not the case for Jesus. So I dont believe that the church in the biblical sense has been an era all that time. My point though was to show that the Marian dogmas do not contradict Scripture. So I think Catholics have a way to honor Mary as the mother of God without divinizing her. I dont know how you would feel. Thats just being read into the text. So when does Marion devotion turn into idolatry? He was put on a cross. [Greek 00:53:10] in the Old Testament is described as a savior, but not as a savior from sin. Jesus does not rebuke her. It is not considered inspired. From 2001 to 2003 he played for the San Diego Chargers, who, with the hire of former Bills GM John Butler, acquired several former Buffalo players. Second Corinthians is clear, God made him who knew no sin to become sin for us. My first book is about not really of us, why do children of Christian parents abandon the faith? For storing and sharing my Apologetic Infographics. Let no one dwell in their tents. This is later applied in Acts 120, but not to a group of people, to an individual, namely Judas. So you can use the app for three months before deciding whether its worth your time and money. Therefore when Mark 6:3 refers to Jesus brothers and sisters not honoring him, we know this refers to Jesus younger half siblings. Yes. I think youve already said to some degree youre okay referring to Mary as the mother of God. Or are they all good? But My covenant I will establish with Isaac" ( Gen 17:20-21 ). Trent, did you want to-. Im not sure. I think it might be best if I just go back and forth, so like one question for Steve and he answers, then Ill do a question for Trent. Okay. Born So Ill send you a link, you could put that [inaudible 01:35:07] as well. Second Samuel 6:23 says, Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to or eos the day of her death. Which of course she did not have children after she died. Because as Steve agreed with me in this debate, the Greek word adelphos can mean adoptive sibling or half sibling. As an authorised Mesabi dealer and supplier of tube and shell . And again, just to give an example in the Septuagint, in the Book of Sirach, which is inspired for Trent, but its not inspired for me, it uses the Greek word [Greek 00:47:52], which is a masculine form of [Greek 00:47:55] when it says, Hail Mary, full of grace. And its used to describe a man who is full of grace. So I agree with that. This is an example of eisegesis and known as a typology thats used a lot of times by Catholic apologists. A concrete example of this would be sacrifice. The son of Jonah? She is not mentioning sin in any case. As I mentioned in my book, the case for Catholicism Pauls letter to the Thessalonians, he talks about the force restraining the man of lawlessness. Its referring back to 2 Samuel when its talking about the ark being moved to Jerusalem. Thats fair. Thats not true. It can only mean figurative sister or biological sister. I already have. An interview with Steve Baughman. Lets talk about the perpetual virginity of Mary. Christie, who grew up in Oakville, Ontario, graduated from The College of William and Mary and made his NFL debut with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990. And he went on to say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God when in fact they dont because the Christian God is Jesus and the Muslim God is Allah, and is not Jesus. Or, since Jesus said the Pharisees in his presence murdered this person, it could refer to one of Jesus contemporaries. By providing an accessible and growing repository of teaching materials, as well as providing a means of networking within the apologetics community, ourvisionis to be a significant educational resource for churches, campus groups, and Christians around the world. Things like whether shes Mediatrix or Co-Redemprtix. Second, this debate is not about the church fathers or Christian history. Im not sure that that is in Genesis 19:9. Just a weak reference to Mark chapter three. The wrongs I have done are not hidden from me.. But that is simply not the case. It refers to a natural sister as well or a biological [inaudible 01:15:42]. Okay. EDWARD D. ANDREWS (AS in Criminal Justice, BS in Religion, MA in Biblical Studies, and MDiv in Theology) is CEO and President of Christian Publishing House. And also I know others whove done a lot of work on this. Protestants disagree. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. Of course, this objection becomes a problem for Protestants since by this standard, many of their doctrine like sola scriptura, eternal security, sola fide would also arrive too late in church history to count as being apostolic. Without separating the Marian dogmas from them are where these much, much later Marian dogmas developed from and later forced into the text, which would have been foreign to the biblical writers. Okay. 16. Paul himself reaffirms this in Romans 9:11. 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