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I also invested in a bitcoin two years ago, and paid off all my debt with it. Think about how tomorrows generation will use far a more advanced blockchain tech to interact with far more advanced internet and general tech to create things that we cant even conceive of yet, let alone why they would have value. . NOTHING HAPPENS! Own as much Bitcoin as matches your understanding of Bitcoin. There are other points that I cant think of right now. Unconfirmed BTC transactions already in the 6 digits now. Guys. Vijay What ICO do you own? Thats almost the opposite of how hydroelectric dams work (I did a couple years of power research in Quebec, which also has massive dams). Just one, just $2, and its (hopefully) only a sliver of your net worth. If you know anyone heavily vested in bitcoin, stay in touch with them. So we need more credible people to speak out against it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3WkySh_Ho. January 2, 2018, 8:01 pm. January 5, 2018, 7:21 pm, *cough* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania. Good comments Jon. Oh my gosh, get out! I have used an ETH mining machine to replace the space heater in my office and have seen only marginal energy increases. No. All true. I have seen several bubbles grow and then burst, and one thing you learn is that an actual bubble rises like crazy and then totally pops. Do you seriously think that corruption is not a big deal in first-world countries? Mr. Money Mustache talks about his divorce. Thanks for sharing your opinion! Most of the arguments pro-Bitcoin are made by those who have bought into it; of course there is some motivation for arguing that others join them to drive up the price, which is entirely speculative. I think its a bit of stretch to call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme. False analogies. There are many reasonable prices for these goods that are non-speculative in nature. My disagreements w the article summarized: The bitcoin price isnt rising because people are buying the coins to conduct real business. In 2018 and 2019, expect the speculation to subside as more tokenomics becomes important for valuations. SMH. Its a speculation, pretty much like buying gold. I can leave the country with it if the government ever gets out of hand (I cant do that with gold or cash since it will likely be confiscated or banks be frozen). The Vigilante They always do.. This YouTube Video is one of the best shortcuts I found for explaining how Blockchain (and Bitcoin) works. if they dont open one day, the fragile world crumbles. 4. Videos about Personal Finance, Early Retirement, and Other Stuff. January 3, 2018, 5:48 am. Go educate yourself first. Same wishes to you on your toilet paper fiat money my friend. Also appreciate fungibility. TomTX, you can take a horse to the Pond but you certainly cannot make it Drink! Darn things didnt even pace with inflation. Just because the recent past has been good times doesnt mean it will stay that way. He said Bitcoin is stupid and speculative. However when every Joe on the street becomes an expert in an assetthen its suspect and you dont need to be clairvoyant to know that this will not end well. MMM has been writing quality PF content for years. Mr. Money Mustache and his then-wife retired at the age of 30 with a net worth of $600,000. I could definitely sell these for more later. So just like you say theres nothing stopping you from creating your own Bitcoin, its the same code.unless you could attract hundreds of millions of dollars of computing power to ensure data integrity on your blockchain, its as worthless as your nail clippings. The problem with speculation is that the few that get in early certainly do make hordes of money at the expense of hordes of people that get in when speculative mania is at its peakinevitably to crash at some point. Gold has the 2 most important properties to make it function as money, scarcity and intrinsic value. Im only a mediocre computer scientist. Bitcoin has very little usage. Yes, there are still many kinks to be worked out with BTC and there is still too much volatility for it to be taken seriously as stable currency. I advise you look at the 10-year PE ratio. Nothing is 100% guaranteed in life. Bitcoin is used for some pretty awful things, the accountant at my dads prior employer stole $500,000+ and likely hid it from the authorities. The reason is that its not an investment. Bitcoin (aka CancerPills) has become an investment bubble, with the complementary forces of Human herd behavior, greed, fear of missing out, and a lack of understanding of past financial bubbles amplifying it. While stocks are likely a bit frothy, P/E ratios arent near the peaks they were circa 2000s: And important thing to note here is that underneath (almost all) stocks are actual engines of growth with hundreds or thousands of humans working hard, churning out profits, earnings, and dividends. On the other hand, paying a ridiculously high speculative price based only on what others *might* be willing to pay in the futurebased on little historical or reasonable evidencecertainly is insane. Market prices are not set by consensus. Moneymeister 16-02-2023 WIDM 2023: mijn mening en verdenkingen tot nu toe. ), bastringue About purse.io: Do you have to pay the transaction fee to deposit the BTC to escrow? Thats cool. That has happened before in the world. Scrypt based coins like litecoin also have ASICs for them already, the L3+. January 4, 2018, 9:20 am. Is the theory that eventually there wont be anymore banks? We save up our purchases. While cryptos are new, they also dont meet the needs of traditional cash flow analysis but for a new asset class but just because its new doesnt mean its a bad idea. For fun, I try to gauge how bad is the Fear of missing out is and how that corresponds to a peak. Do these 2 billion unbanned people 1) have internet access and 2) access to the initial bitcoin to get in on this internet money? Id love to see MMM fingernail futures one day on my ticker chart. This bubble is going to break, the environmental waste is awful, and CNBC legitimizing this as investing with ticket symbols must stop. Its trust is the full force of the weapons and arsenal behind it. I believe the current Cryptocurrency investment mania is a huge waste of human energy, and our rate of waste has been growing exponentially. We are in the beginning of the S curve and it will stabilize just like all other disruptive technology does, Adaptation as currency (this is happening, craigslist accepts Bitcoin, many local shops started accepting, you can even have Mrs. MM get paid by bitcoin on etsy. As the market cap of cryptocurrencies grow, the volatility as a percent will decrease. Blog readers. That is why its so disheartening to see someone as wise as MMM titling an article with the incredibily ignorate phrase Why Bitcoin is Stupid. Appreciate the post MMM. No one person has control over it and that may end up being a good thing (people are corruptible). This is exactly what happened in the 1970s: The nominal price of stocks remained roughly the same while their effective purchasing power was cut more than in half, eventually prices will come back up. Bitcoin has a deflationary nature, its only logical to pay you in $100 non-bitcoin bucks that are racing with the inflation rate of the Feds printing machine instead. More? One of my coworkers at MMM-HQ works for nVidia, and part of his job is hunting down mining thieves who comandeer virtual servers (cloud computing) to mine coins on their behalf. January 4, 2018, 2:35 pm. Cmon people its not rocket science. Today, Jan 26, at 11:30 AM, its trading around $31,850. What, you think rich people dont argue with strangers on the internet? :), https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/941500121564332032, farmecologist that would be a PE ratio of 1. Educate yourself on why Bitcoin and Blockchain cannot be split up. On the other hand, if youre cool with allowing remote-controlled robots to kill 3rd world women and children in your name, then keep using only US Dollars. I agree with Tawcan. This is a non-sarcastic answer: The same could be said of buying a Powerball ticket every week. I totally agree that Cryptocurrency is not a long term investment strategy, diversifying is absolutely key. January 3, 2018, 5:30 pm. Its interesting that you state the high water mark was $700,000, but now its $500k. Basic Economics Vijay. Assuming you can know the exact price of a commodity on a given day is speculative, yes. > There is a high chance that Bitcoin doesnt remain #1 forever because there are so many cryptocurrencies, many of which with very different applications, including some that arent even based on blockchain technology. This way, whichever direction GBTC goes, you wont be in a regretful situation. Adeney retired from his job as a software engineer in 2005 at age 30 by spending only a small percentage of his annual salary and consistently investing the remainder, primarily in stock market index funds. So, they sell it at a discount instead of losing revenue. Youve got Bitcoin with a market value of $234 Billion Dollars, then Ripple at $92 billion with Ethereum right behind at $85,792,800,592. As for spending your Bitcoin, I digress. Even if you are the only one in the room willing to do it. Well I guess its all right then. When the supply of foolish speculators dries up, the value evaporates often very quickly. For the first time in history, a machine can own money and make its own purchases. We have never in history had such expanding currency supply backed by NOTHING. A boy named Sue He appeared on the Kevin Rose podcast as well. As for USD working has many reasons, required to participate in the largest economy in the world, the military power behind said economy, etc. And this, MMM There are no financial instruments that will protect you from a world where we no longer trust each other. El Penguin I am Mr. Money Mustache, mild mannered retired-at-30 software engineer who later became accidental leader of Ironic Cult of Mustachianism. So, Bitcoin is supposed to replace all forms of physical currency in theory because people dont trust banks. Good points? Youve made a great profit, and you can play with that $28k. Gold is not necessarily a speculation. 26 Replies 18313 Views March 27, 2020, 01:47:17 PM by talltexan: How do you press your kids to learn money habits? You are a dumb man TomTX! 1. You can give up that wet dream right now. Speculating on bitcoin for this reason only really works so long as there is some new greater fool who joins in on the speculation after you have bought. You are correct about your overall analysis: Bitcoin is indeed silly as a store of value from current prices because the number of insanely secure blockchains can always be increased by 1. if there was something I wanted to buy online from another country and they didnt take the dollar for whatever reason its an OK solution. (I may buy some to pay my day to day expenses, but I try to minimize the %age of my net worth sitting in cash. The poorest in Sub-Saharan Africa earns the same money that you sitting in Manhattan, NY do. Educate yourself on Lightning Network or layer 2 protocols of Bitcoin. Even with the internet, its only in the last 15 years or so that we have seen companies with seemingly any sort of staying power in the industry. This is yet another extreme example. Money only has value if it is stable and trusted. Another interesting side-effect of bitcoin mining: big sales of computer graphics cards, and theft of electricity and cloud computer services. bitcoin @ 7k, down close to 70%. January 2, 2018, 6:04 pm. Whatever they are willing to pay to enjoy owning these things themselves is their business, and may make for a fairly rational purchase. Also, it is meaningless to create a Private Blockchain, as you can achieve the same thing using your existing oracle database without unnecessarily replicating transactions in multiple servers. Why? And of course, the purpose of this whole aside is that I want to establish credibility with you, so you will give this article some consideration. Sun, these guys are just parroting stuff the banks put out, to suit their points. How many do you need? their invested dollars add value to a society the moment they are employed.. Youre not going to get rich by collecting metals, but you might stay rich with them. Take a look at the German Mark after WW1. https://www.amazon.com/giftcardscams/b?ie=UTF8&node=15435487011, Ryan Schaap This is because society is nothing but an abstract grouping of individuals. January 23, 2018, 12:50 am, Why Mr. Money Mustache is wrong and Nassim Taleb is right about Bitcoin: https://medium.com/p/81f5ffa42deb?source=linkShare-6c666494704c-1516693614. Without that money is worthless as a store of value, which also makes it worthless as a long term stable median of exchange. Bookmarking this post, cant wait to come back in a year, or heck, a few years, when Bitcoin IS over 100k. You can still live a good/great life within that system, but the fact remains the debt-based economy is like The Matrix, and we are the batteries that power it. This is no different from rich wall street people and government controlling fiat currency. Some guy on the internet And its back to 12.5K in two days. Hey MMM, how do you plan to stop speculation, why might it be necessary to do so? If you can afford to lose the $500K and want to let it ride, go for it. Because I still cant pay for groceries in my town without swiping a card or handing over some US dollars. Sure speculate, but this is not going to be the future as it stands now. The imaginary value of these valueless bits of computer data representsenough money to change the course of the entire human race, for example eliminating all poverty or replacing the entire worlds 800 gigawatts of coal power plants with solar generation. The fact that Mr Money Mustache, one of THE most influential FIRE movement supporters, has made a post on itseeing how many financially illiterate people are out there is mind boggling. This instability just further proves that it would make a terrible currency and a recent study reveals that about, Mr. Money Mustache. WHY??? Its a win-win situation. Also if youre going to start the whole not everywhere is like the U.S. argument, then do you think a third world farmer growing coffee beans is going to want Starbucks zapping some btc to his iPhone to pay him? He pulled this off by living on a small percentage of his income as a software engineer, and diligently . Mr. Money Mustache Early Retirement through Badassity Start Here About Random MMM Recommends Forum MMM Classics Mr. Money Mustache View: Fancy Magazine | Classic Blog Welcome New Readers! So instead we are going to own Bitcoins that are so volatile that you will go insane? Because I think they dont want to devalue the money too fast. And then follow that thread all the way back to the fact that the future blockchain(s) all of these future uses are built on are going to be continuations of the most valuable blockchains of today because valuable blockchains are a prerequisite for the data integrity required for high value use cases. Thats not a bubble, but something else entirely. Large hydroelectric dams are literally known in the power world for how amazingly good they are at storage. However, investing in Bitcoin now seems more along the lines of investing in a BBS in the early 90s. Blockchain technology may do that too. If people are creating an bubble out of it, people is stupid, not bitcoin. On the popular Coinbase it will cost you about 4% just to exchange USD for BTC. It is already in Beta testing and will be released this year. You keep spouting off nonsense. But I think you meant to write apologize on behalf of half of humanity. The other half of humanity has no internet access at all (internet access just eclipsed 50% of the worlds population this past year), and thus they should not bear any responsibility for the cryptocurrency craze. Bitcoin/Ethereum mixers. Its not an investment. Well then Biglaw Investor, youd better stop using websites or stop supporting any company that does big data research, because thats consuming considerably more electricity and its not fundamentally vital to us existing. Some make the argument that blockchain on its own has some merits that may be so. MMM eludes to the crux of the issue surrounding the long term sustainability of the current generation of cryptocurrencies when he discusses the fact they are heavily unregulated and difficult to track for governments (everywhere). Why not one of the other 1500 cryptocurrencies? Christopher R Young January 3, 2018, 12:06 am, Sounds like a classic case of sour grapes to me :-), Cameron Imagine he same concept but at least an old beta max has some residual value if you still own tapes, Another great comparison. How much of your net worth is in this investment? It has a track record though ill give you that. Today, 20 years down the road you are watching 4K videos on it! But from now on, Im going to replace that sob story with this: Man, I missed out on MMM fingernail clippings! to remind myself of the absurdity of that imagined sunk cost Ive burdened myself with. You cant vote with your wallet in this situation, so you have no control over what practices the miners use. You may be smart enough to recognize why one currency is going up and another isnt and to not go all-in on something. I dont get the whole thing where people think fiat currency is just useless paper and then turn to gold. Could you please tell us what you are invested in and when you got in? Remember there was social media before Facebook. Hell if I believed that I would work my ass of taking EVERYTHING I could and putting it into cryptos! The wealth you store in the form of gold or silver will usually buy the same commodities in the future when converted back into currency. They saw value in it very early. Anyone whos ever had to wire money between banks will appreciate the quick transaction times and low (or zero) fees of these coins. (see: Long Island Iced Tea Corp. becoming Long Blockchain Corp.). My Take: Cryptocurrencies have A LOT of problems currently. If I lie to you and take your money, thats one thing. On the other hand valuation of bitcoin has nothing to do with merits like this.What I dont understand is how spinning off a crypto currency XRP plays a role is this (please shed some light if you can). Some of my conversations with him inspired the research in this article. I put my money where my mouth is! Personally, I am out of Bitcoin because it is no longer useful to me. Maybe the currencies will be useful to, but the really useful ones will be the ones designed for some purpose. Bitcoins are all the same, they are not numbered, they dont rot and dont have a shelf life. Couldnt have said it any better myself. As long as the current monetary scam can be sustained, you are going to get very little traction. Now, with that moral sermon out of the way, we might as well talk about why Bitcoin has become such a big thing, so we can separate the usefulness of the underlying technology called Blockchain, from the mania about how people have turned Bitcoin it into a big dumb lottery. Be careful what you wish for. ie beauty counter for nerds. To me, the Bitcoin bet is basically a global Paypal that allows anyone in the world to use it. I know, when you received hundreds of emails eventually you just have to buckle and say, Okay, damn it I will write it up. Jeremy Collins If they had money in gold they could have mitigated some of the affects of the politicians and bureaucrats in those countries (and the IMF). Exchanges get hacked or hacked (where the operators secretly run off with the coins) all the time. Its not as simple as you make it personally. I dislike all this vitriol given to speculators when they are fully valuable members of an economic system. Update, my fingernails are up to $160,000 now. So you are further wagering that Bitcoin will literally supplant the USD as the world medium of financial exchange, and frankly, that is kinda bonkers. I couldnt find anything indicating countries are using bitcoin as a reserve currency. How else should people behave? January 3, 2018, 4:51 pm. Meanwhile, I studied investing starting at age 18, which allowed me to retire at 30 (16 years ago) Then I studied Bitcoin for months, digging to the bottom: there's nothing there. MMMers have unplugged from debt, but putting all faith in the designers of The Matrix seems ironic. Tim Beck All that the US has done since 2008, is hit the ball further and further down the road while at the same time blowing it more and more with air (read Quantitative Easing). A good analogy is a life raft on the ocean vs an aircraft carrier. You clearly have a contrarian opinion here. Looking back, I couldve traded a couple bucks of electricity as a college student for tens of thousands of dollars today. I dont mind people investing in Bitcoin because its not my money. Since when was that a down year? Joey Graziano ;). Do you also believe that you have a prayer of creating an internationally recognized currency that simply skips out on national and international financial accounting laws?

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